{"id":11973,"date":"2020-02-06T15:04:26","date_gmt":"2020-02-06T14:04:26","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/geopragma.fr\/?p=11973"},"modified":"2021-09-21T10:43:27","modified_gmt":"2021-09-21T08:43:27","slug":"interview-of-armen-sarkissian-president-of-armenia-2-3","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/geopragma.fr\/interview-of-armen-sarkissian-president-of-armenia-2-3\/","title":{"rendered":"Interview of Armen Sarkissian, President of Armenia (2\/3)"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

Interview r\u00e9alis\u00e9e par Caroline Galact\u00e9ros le 10 octobre 2019 \u00e0 Erevan <\/em>(Arm\u00e9nie)<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\"\"
Seal of the President of Armenia <\/figcaption><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n

Caroline Galact\u00e9ros<\/strong>: Armenia has a central role to play and must change the image we usually have of Armenia: that Armenia is far away, in a complicated part of the world. <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Mr. President, how do you see Armenia\u2019s position\nglobally in the balance of powers? What do you think about the relation between\nRussia and the US? And, about China? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

AS: <\/strong>Balancing\nbetween great powers\u2019 politics is a complex geopolitical gesture for a state\nlike Armenia. This is especially the case for a country being located in an\nendemically fragile region such as the Black Sea-Caspian, which represents a\nhistorical epicenter for competing or aligning great and middle powers with\ntheir distinct interests. Therefore, having asuccessful foreign policy for Armenia is a strategy of survival\nand development, which necessitates hard choices taken in line with the\nnational interests and collective ambitions of our nation. Being at the crossroads of civilizations, empires and powers for\nthousands of years, means challenging various interests of great powers. It is obvious that the world we\nare living in yields broad opportunities to the small states like Armenia to\nplay an influential role in modern geopolitics and geo-economy in evolving\ninternational system.<\/strong> <\/p>\n\n\n\n

The\nhistorical Armenia was, not only here, in South Caucasus, but further down the\nAnatolia at the source of the rivers Tigris and Euphrates. Being local for\ncenturies is not easy, especially when there are tribes coming from the North,\nfrom Mongolia, from central Asia and coming and becoming, and creating their\nown empires, like the Ottoman Empire. Armenia had for thousands of year also\nvery intense relations with those nations, states that were around: Parthians,\nHellenes, Romans and so on. But let me take back from there. Hence, being almost\nunder pressure, we were always fighting to survive and develop. So, when you\nhave that for thousands of years, it becomes your genetic code. So, we are a\nNation of survivors. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

CG:\nHow Armenia identify itself on the stage of international politics? <\/strong>What\u2019s Armenia\u2019s goal?<\/strong> <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Armenia\nis a somewhat unique actor of international relations that can be identified as\na small power -being a small coherent state with big ambitions and being a\nglobal nation at the same time. One of the reasons was that Armenians were\ntraders, creating networks around the globe. We were always on the roads of\ntrading between India and Europe, between East and West. After the day we\nbecame the first Christian statewe\nbelieved in our faith, our destiny. We create a place where we can worship,\nwhich is the church and the second one is the school. That\u2019s the other genetic\nthing of how you survive. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Armenia sticks in to promote an inclusive cooperation and partnership with all powers, highlighting our capabilities to play a bridging role, and a role of big data hub in international arena. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Human\nresources are not just about the number, but also about the quality, about the\nculture, about education, about behave, about the family. Armenia has inherited\na good academic research, which has value, and Armenia was a place where we had\nhigh-tech industry in the Soviet Union.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I\u2019m\nan example of that. I was taught here in mathematics and physics. I became a\nresearcher and professor at University here, and I was teaching also in other\ncities of Soviet Union, ended up teaching at Cambridge University and then\nvisiting many universities in the world, also French and American.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Here\nin Armenia, we must look to build the faith. The faith is not only in God but\nalso in your nation and in your state, that\u2019s again the motivation, that\u2019s\nsomething that pushes you to conquer. The second is to invest in the future. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

So,\nit\u2019s the state that should build his future on the faith, consolidation,\nmotivation, and on a mission. Without mission, we\u2019ll be lost.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And\nthe second part of that is the mission for the future that means children and\neducation. That\u2019s why the future of Armenia is in new technology, high-tech,\nmathematics and so on… <\/p>\n\n\n\n

CG: <\/strong>You had this famous Forum… Armenian Summit of Minds. <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

AS: <\/strong>This is one of the events, the first\none. In 2019 in summer we organized a worldwide conference here, in Armenia. The\nFrench Dominique de Villepin and many other personalities were here. It was a\ncombination of technology and politics. We will have another one this year, with\nthe specific focus on geopolitics and artificial intelligence. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

In\nthe 21st century, it\u2019s not only the century of technology, we\u2019re using a lot of\niPads, telephones, we\u2019re a lot in a virtual life, and the virtual life\ninfluences us, because Facebook, Twitter have huge influence on what\u2019s\nhappening. In the\nfuture, a lot of politics and geopolitics will be run quantumly. As a\nquantum physicist, I have my own theory on how it\u2019s going to be run. This is\nout of a book which will come out later this year about the quantum of global\nrisks, it\u2019s the basis of quantum politics. It means that many things are uncertain,\nwhat is going to happen between the United States and China. This is uncertain.\nHow does a young French talented former minister of economy become a president in\na couple of years? <\/p>\n\n\n\n

CG: <\/strong>But he had solid supports.<\/strong> <\/p>\n\n\n\n

AS: <\/strong>It\u2019s not only about the solid supports.\nHe was the one who really understood how to run it. People around might understand\nhow to run it and how to win an election in the 21st century. And that method\nis called Quantum. I have a theory how to do that. I can teach you. Next time\nyou can win yourself. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

CG: <\/strong>This <\/strong>could be a good idea<\/strong>. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

AS: <\/strong>This is a world that is going to be\nvery virulent, dynamic, it will be changing all the time. And again, those\nnations, or individuals who think about their survival and development, who\nthink they can adapt very quickly in changing environment that can adjust\nthemselves : they can rise very quickly after falling. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Armenia\nhas good relations with Russia and we are a member of Eurasia Economic Union\nwhich is an advantage for a small country. When you think about Armenian market,\nyou don\u2019t think about three million, but around two hundred million people in\nEurasia Economic Union. On the other hand, Armenia has signed the Comprehensive and Enhanced Partnership Agreement with the European Union. It gives a unique chance to Europe to act with\nthe Eurasian Economic Union the other way around.  <\/p>\n\n\n\n

CG: Your country could be a precious bridge, the Bridge between Europe\nand Eurasia\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

So,\nwe are member of the Eurasian Economic Union, and have strategic agreement with\nthe European Union, traditionally we possess deep relations with the United\nStates and Latin America because there is a big Armenian community, and the Armenian\nlobby in different States and in the Congress is quite strong. Then Armenia traditionally has very good relations\nwith China which is admittedly a rising global power with its ambitious\ninter-continental projects one of which represents the \u201cBelt and Road\nInitiative\u201d designed to change the geo-economic paradigm of the entire Eurasia\nsignificantly. On one hand, being a Eurasian Economic Union member, with simultaneously\ndeveloping strategic ties with the European Union Armenia, on the other hand\nexpresses unhidden interest to integrate into China\u2019s projects, thereby\ninvesting in Greater Eurasian Partnership for the sake of prosperous and\nadvanced future. In so doing, Yerevan\u2019s deepening relations with Beijing\nappears as something natural because\nwe were there all the time. If you go to China, even if you go to Singapore,\nthe famous hotel in Singapore, the Raffles Hotel, was built by an Armenian\nfamily. And if you go there, you\u2019ll find nearby an Armenian church as usual. So,\nArmenians are in Singapore, in Hong Kong, one of the founders of Hong Kong\nBank, which became the Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corporation. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Summing this up, it is worth noting that\nArmenia strives to effectively harmonize the different multinational\nintegration platforms in our adapting foreign policy strategy. I am of the\nopinion that in the globalized world, which currently undergoes rapid\ntechnological evolution the countries like Armenia can transform a structural\nconstraint yielded by geography into an advantage.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CG: <\/strong>What you\u2019re calling faith, family, heritage, culture, history, what does\nmatter… <\/strong><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

AS<\/strong>: That\u2019s going to be more and more important. Because if you look at the\nsame thing from a different angle, one which is going to become important is the\nstructure of your state and your nation as well. Because demography matters. <\/s><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Demography\nfate will have a big influence on what\u2019s going to happen. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

It\u2019s\nnot only about religion. It\u2019s about the consolidation of a nation. When I speak\nabout faith, I don\u2019t speak about religion. Religion is a part of it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CG: <\/strong>The next question is about one of your beauties here, your touristic\npotential. But of course, this touristic development is completely linked to\nthe perceived global security level, perceived from outside. So, it\u2019s linked\nwith the present situation with Azerbaijan…<\/strong> <\/p>\n\n\n\n

AS: <\/strong>No, it is not. First of all, this is\none of the most secure countries in the world. Armenia developed a self-sufficient\nand sophisticated system of itsown\nsecurity. We are confident on it, improving and honing the defensive\ncapabilities and the entire security architecture consistently. The dispute pertaining\nto the status of Nagorny Karabakh populated by Armenians (Armenia\u2019s historical\nprovince of Artsakh) originated in the early 20th<\/sup> century when in a\nresult of the Russian Empire fall the nations of Transcaucasia, for a while\nthough, embarked on establishing own statehoods. Armenia obtained a chance to\nregain its centuries-lost independence. The politico-military contest with\nregards to Nagorny Karabakh has reinvigorated with the dissolution of the Soviet\nUnion in early 1990s, followed by anti-Armenian bloody pogroms in Baku and\nSumgait, perpetrated by Azerbaijani nationalists. The rising tensions\nculminated with a full-scale hostility launched by the government of Azerbaijan\naimed at oppressing and muting the unarmed Armenian population of Nagorny Karabakh\nforcefully in 1991, who took the streets for their own freedom and unification\nwith Armenia since 1988. Consequently, the aggressor was repelled with\ntripartite ceasefire regime negotiated and established in 1994. To date the\nceasefire regime is kept, except sporadic local incidents. Therefore, the\nceasefire order is in place, with the close monitoring of OSCE Minsk Group\nCo-Chairmanship mediatory platform and the architecture of conflict containment\nworks. To sum up, Armenia is capable of projecting its security environment\nrelying on the combination of its own power, internal coherency, institutional\nresilience and democratic consolidation, which makes our country an absolutely\nsafe place.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Number\ntwo, tourism is many things. Infrastructures, transportations, airports,\nairlines and many other things. Nice restaurants…We have all of them: we have\na perfect airport, we have fantastic restaurants, and you can find great French\nfood here. Why? Because there are Armenians from France, from Iran who are cooking\namazing Iranian food, from Lebanon and Syria you\u2019ve got the best Syrian\nrestaurants. You don\u2019t get that in Europe. You get a nightlife here, Italian\nrestaurants. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

And\nso on, you get the local food, so this is a beautiful country and tourists can\ncome to Georgia, to Armenia, these two are historic Christian states, with\nMuslim heritage traces as well. We have a phenomenal growth of tourism this\nyear, and the reason was the image of Armenia. It\u2019s a country where we had a\nRevolution without bloodshed.  So, it\u2019s\nemotional, it\u2019s virtual, it\u2019s quantum. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

In\nArmenia, how did we do the\nRevolution? Dancing, singing, the President going to the square, negotiating\nwith the opposition, the future Prime minister, I did it. So, there is a tourism,\nhistoric tourism, religious tourism, national tourism. There are 10-12 million\nArmenians living abroad. So, if you change the perception, how you look at the\ncountry, you\u2019ll get a lot of tourism. Tourism is rising in Armenia. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

CG: <\/strong>What could France do to help Armenia? I\u2019m not speaking about the French\nArmenian community; I\u2019m speaking about the institutional France.<\/strong> <\/p>\n\n\n\n

AS: <\/strong>To be honest, I don\u2019t like the word\n\u201chelp\u201d, but rather \u201cfriendship,\u201d or \u201cpartnership\u201d.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

We\ncan be a friend and a reliable partner, and we know how to value our friends\nand partners. We need to combine our efforts and establish mutually beneficial\ninteractions in a number of fields. We should create new platforms of\ncooperation that would culminate in a result-driven interdependence and\neffective partnerships. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

What\nis there for France in Armenia? And there is a lot for France as we\u2019re a\nfrancophone country hosting a French university, a French high school and a\ncollege. In our capacity of a member of the Organisation\ninternationale de la Francophonie<\/em>, we hosted le Sommet de la Francophonie<\/em> last year here in Armenia. We have so\nmuch in common between our cultures, history, and civilizational interactions,\nincluding strong ties between France and the Armenian kingdom of Cilicia with\nhis rulers of Armenian branch of the French Lusignan dynasty, with mixed\nmarriages between princes and princesses, with cultural and linguistic\ninterferences and so on\u2026 <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Now,\nwe must work on building new bridges of cooperation in areas like nuclear\nenergy, artificial intelligence, space technology, data security, tourism,\nagriculture, parliamentary diplomacy, and much more. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

It\u2019s\nabout meeting our interests, our science, technology, and industry, and\nculture. That\u2019s why the Office of the President launched an initiative called \u201cATOM\u201d\n(Advanced Tomorrow). This is about partnering with the worldwide known big\ninternational companies in new technologies. And do you know the best ones\nwe\u2019re working with now? Dassault, Thales\u2026 which are indeed French companies.\nThey are one of the best in the world, and they come to Armenia to find ways of\ncooperation with us in research and development, in mathematics and so on. So,\nthis is about friendship and partnership. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

CG: <\/strong>W<\/strong>e have still to go on to be in this\nquantum society in France. We have other problems, and we have also this\nproblem of faith in our nation State. That\u2019s for sure. But we don\u2019t want to\nrealize it, because we are afraid. <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

AS: <\/strong>That\u2019s the wrong approach. If you\nhave a problem, you must face it. If you don\u2019t face the problem, then that\nproblem will hit you, psychologically, it will hit your time. You have a choice. This is\nhappening in real time in Armenia.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

You\nlook carefully at Armenia, you get a closer friend to Armenia, you invest in\nArmenia, and then you learn what\u2019s happening here. That\u2019s the choice number\none. Choice number two, there is a film we call Black Mirror, you watch it and\nyou\u2019ll see the horrors of the next quantum world that we are entering. Because\nmost of them are realistic. This is coming. The things that you see there are\ncoming. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

So,\nyou have a choice, real life, possible bright future which is Armenia\u2019s. <\/s><\/p>\n\n\n\n

CG:<\/strong> You spoke about this very peaceful\nrevolution, incredible things which happened in Armenia, which is an example\nfor so many other countries. But do you think people knew exactly what was\ngoing on? I mean, I think it was not very well known in the West.<\/strong> <\/p>\n\n\n\n

AS:<\/strong> In the West? No, of course. It\u2019s an image that you get, it\u2019s a\nperspective you get from CNN, or BBC, RT, or newspapers, articles from Figaro\nup to the Times. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

CG: <\/strong>I spoke with journalists and there was not so as much for the correspondents\nwho came… The Revolution was so short, and they think… <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

AS: <\/strong>That\u2019s the beauty. Imagine all the\njournalists would come here. It happened so quickly. It happened like a chain\nreaction, like a nuclear reaction. You start with a couple of high energy\nparticles hitting and the reaction will start. And it started with high energy,\nit was the fact that people were unhappy generally and it started two weeks\nafter my inauguration, so I became president, the new Constitution started\nworking, the former president wanted to become a Prime Minister, people were\nunhappy, there were small groups of young energetic opposition people,\nincluding the camp of the Prime minister, and the speakers of the Parliament.\nThey started walking from Gyumri to Yerevan…<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A\ncouple of weeks after, you had 200 000 or even more people at the Republic square.\n<\/p>\n\n\n\n

CG: <\/strong>My last question is about Turkey. What to do with Turkey? Because of the\n2009 protocols, is it over? It didn\u2019t work. What to do, trade? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

AS: <\/strong>Personally, I didn\u2019t believe it was going\nto work due to many reasons. And those reasons go from geopolitical configurations\nto cultural and historic components. Our relations with Turkey remain\ncomplicated. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

One\nof the reasons rests on Turkey-Azerbaijan relationship dimension. Apart from\nthe issue of Armenia-Turkey protocols, Azerbaijan wields disproportionate impact\non Turkey not only in virtue of the political capitalization of investments in\nTurkey\u2019s economy and energy sectors. In parallel to energy diplomacy formulated\nfor years aimed at playing important role for Turkey in obtaining energy or\ntransporting thereof, Baku also plays with pan-Turkic sentiments to draw\npalpable influence on<\/em> Turkey and in<\/em> Turkey to serve its own national\ninterests in competition with Armenia. As a result, we have shared but closed\nborder with Turkey. In fact, the only closed border in Europe not to be in the\nbest interests of our countries, especially with the immense economic potential\nstill remains untapped.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

On\nthe other hand, we cannot afford to ignore the collective standpoint of the\nArmenian Diaspora. The question of the Genocide recognition is still there. To\nbe honest, it\u2019s up to Turkey to recognize genocide or not. Because the recognition\nwould be good for them. The moment they recognize that, they\u2019ll become closer\nto the civilized community of nations, much more a nation that will embrace the\nvalues of tolerance, tolerance to other people, to other countries, to other\nnations, to anything. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u2026You must\nhave a revolution in order to change the textbooks. So, if Turkey decides to do\nso, it would revolutionize their history and culture, they would have to change\nmany things. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

CG:\nConcerning the resuming of a dialogue between Yerevan and Ankara, from which\nside should it come from in your opinion: Armenia or Turkey? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

AS:<\/strong> It is up to the Turkish side. If they want to talk. I\u2019ve done it once,\nofficially, in my interview to Swiss television. They asked me \u00ab if you would\nsee today Mister Erdogan, what you would tell him \u00bb. I said:      \u00ab Good morning \u00bb, because it was morning,\nand then I was saying that I\u2019m not the president of Turkey, I\u2019m the president\nof Armenia and my ancestors come from the Western Armenia which is now Eastern\nTurkey and probably there\u2019s something we have to talk. I didn\u2019t emphasize. It\u2019s\nsomething I think we must talk about. Turks are usually very sensitive, they\ngive reactions, in this case it was an absolute silence. Which is fine. \u2026. So, it\u2019s up to them. We have learnt to live without, with closed borders\nwith Turkey and Azerbaijan, and we will continue. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

CG: <\/strong>If the process of Minsk group could start again working.<\/strong> <\/p>\n\n\n\n

AS:<\/strong> But the OSCE Minsk Group Co-Chairmanship format has not stopped. It\u2019s\nstill working there, and I will not comment on that because it\u2019s my government,\nforeign minister and Prime minister who have to negotiate and they will get all\nof my support, whenever they do that. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

CG: <\/strong>Perhaps, if you would have something to just say, to stress on a \u00ab sujet\nlibre<\/em> \u00bb as we would say in France. <\/strong><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

AS:<\/strong> I already did it. You started by provoking me. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

CG: <\/strong>It wasn\u2019t my intention.<\/strong> <\/strong>Would you like to share about\nsomething you think is representative of your country? The faith, the culture,\nthe history?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

AS<\/strong>: The faith as an internal identity,\nwhich is your mission, your focus, your national discipline, your faith culture\nand education, everything. And if you have that faith in yourself, then you can\nwin. You can be successful, and I\u2019d love to be successful with our friends in\nFrance.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

That\u2019s my final word. Not only because I like the history, because I have so many friends, not only because France is important (I think working with French mathematicians, physicists is a pleasure), but also because I love Paris. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Pour plus d’informations sur ce voyage : <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Pages-de-Book-EO29-83-958489-1<\/a>T\u00e9l\u00e9charger<\/a><\/div>\n\n\n\n

Pour consulter l’int\u00e9gralit\u00e9 du num\u00e9ro 29 de la revue Europe et Orient de\njuillet\/d\u00e9cembre 2019 : https:\/\/edsigest.blogspot.com\/2019\/11\/eo-29-le-monde-dans-un-jeu-de-go.html<\/a>\net https:\/\/europeetorient.blogspot.com\/<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Geopragma adresse tous ses remerciements aux Editions SIGEST pour leur\naimable contribution \u00e0 la r\u00e9alisation de ces interviews <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Interview r\u00e9alis\u00e9e par Caroline Galact\u00e9ros le 10 octobre 2019 \u00e0 Erevan (Arm\u00e9nie) Caroline Galact\u00e9ros: Armenia has a central role to play and must change the image we usually have of Armenia: that Armenia is far away, in a complicated part of the world. Mr. President, how do you see Armenia\u2019s position globally in the balance […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":11974,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[115,671,119,603,258,851,849],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-11973","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-asie","category-eurasie","category-europe","category-interviews","category-post","category-relations-internationales-doctrines-et-perceptions","category-securite-defense"],"yoast_head":"\nInterview of Armen Sarkissian, President of Armenia (2\/3) - Geopragma<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/geopragma.fr\/interview-of-armen-sarkissian-president-of-armenia-2-3\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"fr_FR\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Interview of Armen Sarkissian, President of Armenia (2\/3) - Geopragma\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Interview r\u00e9alis\u00e9e par Caroline Galact\u00e9ros le 10 octobre 2019 \u00e0 Erevan (Arm\u00e9nie) Caroline Galact\u00e9ros: Armenia has a central role to play and must change the image we usually have of Armenia: that Armenia is far away, in a complicated part of the world. 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